Curse

Evilsod · Aug 01, 2006, 02:58 PM // 14:58

Lightning Strike, 5 energy cost, instant hit.

Lightning Orb, 15 energy cost, easy to dodge.

Lightning Hammer, 25 energy cost, instant hit.

Can we PLEASE sort out these frigging energy costs. They're just stupid. It costs 5 energy for a bog standard spell. 10 more energy to do twice the damage and miss. And another 10 energy to have no chance of missing the target.

Why can these not cost 5/10/15 respectively? 25 energy cost for a single hit... why? If fire eles were any use in PvP/GvG i'd much rather use Rodgorts Invocation, at least i might hit something else for the same energy cost. Sadly air is only used because it has Blinding Flash and Windborne Speed. Everything else it has is a bonus, but the energy costs are just ridiculous.

Stupid Shizno · Aug 01, 2006, 04:26 PM // 16:26

fast casting me/e with lighting orb + lighting strike is quite powerful, so i do believe its more then just a speed buff reason.

JR · Aug 01, 2006, 05:34 PM // 17:34

Balance dear boy, balance.

Neriandal Freit · Aug 01, 2006, 05:37 PM // 17:37

Personally it doesn't bother me much because I bring Strike, Orb, Hammer and Arrow I think it is. I know, not very fancy of a skill set, but it works :P

Dr Strangelove · Aug 01, 2006, 05:54 PM // 17:54

While I do agree that lighting hammer needs either a shorter recharge or lower energy cost, orb is fine as it is. With orb, you're paying for crazy spike potential. The standrard lighting strike + orb + enervating charge + blinding flash has an awful lot of spike potential. Those spells are one of the few areas of elementalists that don't need work.

Now, if you were to start a post about vapor blade...

Neriandal Freit · Aug 01, 2006, 06:05 PM // 18:05

Thats what I use, it's not strike it's Charge. I feel like Weakness helps you out alot when your throwing out those Hammers and Orbs repeatdely.

xBakox · Aug 01, 2006, 10:40 PM // 22:40

Quote:

If fire eles were any use in PvP/GvG i'd much rather use Rodgorts Invocation, at least i might hit something else for the same energy cost.

HA much? Fire/earth eles (warders) are the most common eles running around HA. And some do bring Rodgorts.

IMO Lightning Hammer DOES need to be lowered to about 20 energy. Atm its not very usable in any serious GvG/HA. I think Orb is fine as it is. It has stayed the same since the nerf on air spike where they either increased recharge time or highered the cost (I cant remember) and it still has its uses today.

If you compare Hammer to Ob Flame though, I think Ob Flame is quite better even though it has a little less dmg (118 max). Its cost is 5e,2sec cast, quick recharge, but causes exhaustion. If you dont use any other exhaustion skills the exhaustion isnt as noticeable as the loss of 25 energy.

Evilsod · Aug 02, 2006, 01:07 AM // 01:07

Sadly the only reason people bring Lightning Hammer is just because EP is the best energy management for your on the go spike assists. You could guarantee this spell would cost 20 energy... IF Anet let spells cost that much. But seriously, 10 addition energy cost just for the benefit of it never missing is not balanced. Its just yet another reason why Eles wouldn't be used if Blinding Flash or Heal Party spamming didn't exist.

BahamutKaiser · Aug 02, 2006, 02:55 AM // 02:55

I think the cost is too much, but the recast is the real problem. With dual attunments it is easy to spam even 25 energy skills, but 10 more energy is alot, and lightning hammer can't be used enough to be important. I think Anet vastly overlooks recast time in the actual cost of a skill, a skill that you can only use half as often and doesn't miss isn't any better than a skill you can use twice as often and have a chance to miss. At it's current recast (and I know it is more than twice as much) Lightning Hammer is only worth 15 energy, if the recast was 10 seconds or less than it would be worth 25 energy.

Lightning Orb is spamable but is a projectile, Lightning Hammer cannot miss but cannot be spammed, for the same damage, that brings them to equal cost, Lightning Hammer needs to be cheaper or have a better recast time.

I think recast times are the worst part about most skill imbalances through the game, someone at Anet needs to realize that recast time is a more significant cost than energy. As said, you can cast Rodgorts at the same recast for simular damage on an enemy and all nearby enemies, but Lightning Hammer hits one at that same 15 second recast, fire skills are better at damaging groups, lightning skills are ment to be better at spiking single targets, Lightning Hammer is lacking is spamable equivalence to Fire magics AoE.

Yichi · Aug 02, 2006, 09:59 AM // 09:59

lets see theres a reason its like this. light strike doesnt do enough dmg to warrant an energy raise. if you raised it, it would be useless.

orb has a chance to miss, thus the lower energy cost, but is higher than light strike due to the 25% armor penetratio nthat strike doesnt have.

hammer is the highest energy cost due to the 25% armor pen and the never miss chance. so its basically orb with strikes ability to never miss.

Flopjack · Aug 02, 2006, 11:25 AM // 11:25

I agree with Yichi on how they are balanced, though I think Lightning Hammer is a little expensive, if not in energy, in something else. If they added a few more points of damage possibly.

Cowboy Nastyman · Aug 02, 2006, 11:46 AM // 11:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistressYichi

lets see theres a reason its like this. light strike doesnt do enough dmg to warrant an energy raise. if you raised it, it would be useless.

orb has a chance to miss, thus the lower energy cost, but is higher than light strike due to the 25% armor penetratio nthat strike doesnt have.

hammer is the highest energy cost due to the 25% armor pen and the never miss chance. so its basically orb with strikes ability to never miss.

actually strike also has the armor penetration

Tark Alkerk · Aug 02, 2006, 11:48 AM // 11:48

lightning hammer is not to expensive and and it can miss,
running it with duel attunements works just fine.

General Surena · Aug 02, 2006, 12:32 PM // 12:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tark Alkerk

lightning hammer is not to expensive and and it can miss,
running it with duel attunements works just fine.

Until you get shattered, drained. I don't really consider eles to be that balanced or fine as some people here believe. 20/10/5 would be a slight and fair buff. Not that it would be enough on the overall picture.

BahamutKaiser · Aug 02, 2006, 11:51 PM // 23:51

If you agree with Yichi than you are wrong with him.

Lightning Strike is exactly half as powerful as Lighting Hammer, they do the exact same thing, cannot be dodged, and 25% armor penetration, the only difference is twice as much damage on Lightning Hammer and Lighting Strike is 3 times faster recharge (as well as half the cast time).

In 15 seconds Lightning Strike can rechare 3 times, and deal 123 damage with 25% armor penetration. Lightning hammer will recharge once and deal 82 damage with 25% armor penetration in a single hit. Even though dealing more damage in a single hit is worth more cost, with a 15 second recharge, it is a straight trade off of more damage in a single hit vs more damage over a period of time, and the difference in cost is 5X. 5X for a skill that is only twice as powerful.

Honestly, if you include the fact that orb can miss, it should really only cost 10 energy, and Lightning Hammer should only cost about 15 energy, twice as powerful, 3 times as expensive as Lightning Strike. But reducing the cost of Orb is a bit too cheap, it is effective because of it's strength and spamability.

I say that Orb should deal 12.5% more damage, and stay at the same cost and recast, and Lightning hammer should be reduced to a 10 second recast, and cost 15 energy.

As said before, I think Anet has some serious flaws in calculating the significance of recast values, making many skills extremely deficient.

kazz · Aug 03, 2006, 12:08 AM // 00:08

I think lightning orb and strike are good enough as they are, and hammer is the only one needing a buff. I think lowering the recharge time a bit should give it more usability while still keeping the balance.

Phoenix Arrows · Aug 03, 2006, 05:53 AM // 05:53

Get Hammer to a 5-sec recharge and I'll be happy.

BTW, in a way, Ob Flame is actually 10 en in cost, due to the exhaustion. You could always negate it though.

Neriandal Freit · Aug 03, 2006, 11:31 AM // 11:31

No, no Hammer at 5 energy. I dont mind it at 25, it could only assit a bit if it dropped to 20, anything below that is just wrong.

huMptY DumPty · Aug 03, 2006, 11:51 AM // 11:51

lol 5 energy hammer would be to l33t of a spell :P

Yeah rodgorts invocation vs hammer .... 25 energy spells...

Electric Sky · Aug 03, 2006, 12:33 PM // 12:33

lightning hammer wont cost that much if you use Glyph of Lesser Energy with it